Inside Rocky’s Market: Community, Sustainability & Organic Goodness with Corinne Kinczel

0:00 Leigh: Hi everyone.
0:01 I’m Leigh, founder and chief enthusiast at Healthy Anywhere.
0:04 Today we are joined with a long-standing community champion
0:09 from Oakland, California.
0:11 We’re talking to chef, caterer, and co-owner of Rocky’s Market
0:15 in Oakland, Corinne Kinsel.
0:18 Corinne, welcome to the show.
0:20 Thank you so much for having me.
0:22 Oh, thank you for being here.
0:25 Wanted to kick it off with our icebreaker question.
0:29 Now, what does healthy mean to you and why is it important?
0:36 Healthy as a whole or healthy eating?
0:40 However you take that to mean.
0:42 Corrine: Okay, I think so as a whole, I believe it’s important to be
0:47 healthy in all aspects of your life.
0:50 What you put in your body.
0:52 The exercise that you have, how you manage emotions and energies that
0:58 are coming in with you and your relationships, I think it’s really
1:03 important to balance your life.
1:06 And that leads to healthy living.
1:09 Leigh: That’s beautiful.
1:10 And that’s really encompassing.
1:12 I love how you even threw in the energies and I know you do
1:15 some energy work on the side.
1:17 I don’t know if we’ll have time to dive into that.
1:20 But, I’m curious to know how you arrived at that
1:24 higher level of definition?
1:27 Corrine: Yeah, I believe that we are first energy, and we’re
1:33 living a human existence right now, and we’re supposed to be taking care
1:38 of these bodies that we have been given and everything that you absorb,
1:45 including energies, good and bad, have a direct effect on your health and so
1:50 it’s what you consume, if you consume a lot of negative energies or
1:55 a lot of harsh energies or a lot of just negative things like the news, for
2:00 instance, is not great for us to watch.
2:02 It’s always such doom and gloom.
2:05 And so whatever we take in is how it sits inside us.
2:11 And so I choose not to watch the news anymore.
2:14 I get information other ways and I don’t need to know exactly what’s
2:18 happening every second of the day.
2:21 I think it perpetuates living in fear, and that’s exactly
2:25 what I don’t want to be doing because then I can’t do my job.
2:29 And my job, I feel, is to bring more love and light and hope, and healthy
2:36 ways of living to educate other people.

2:39 Leigh: I love that.
2:41 I love that.
2:41 That’s beautiful, Corinne.
2:42 Thanks for sharing.
2:43 And I, and as you were saying that the energies you bring in, I was thinking
2:48 about there’s a saying that you are the average, it’s terrible to say
2:53 you’re the average of these people, the, you are the average of the five
2:56 people you surround yourself with.
2:58 That’s a way of saying, okay, I’m spending time with these people.
3:02 So I’m going to absorb that energy.
3:04 So it’s a really good reminder to take stock of, what are
3:10 you surrounding yourself with?
3:11 Like people and.
3:14 Things like news.
3:16 I’m with you.
3:17 Yeah, I cannot deal.
3:19 So it is so important to protect yourself.
3:23 So I really I appreciate that perspective that you bring.
3:26 Thank you for sharing that.
3:28 Thank you.
3:28 And you’re also talking about what you put into your body.
3:33 I know from talking with you earlier, you’re very passionate
3:37 about sustainable agriculture and farming and soil health and all that.
3:45 Could you tell me a little bit about your passion and how it relates
3:50 to what you’re doing right now?
3:53 Corrine: Sure.
3:54 Like you said, I own a grocery store in Oakland, California as
3:57 well as a prepared food line.
3:59 And when I bought the grocery store, there was both organic and
4:04 conventional produce on the shelves.
4:07 And every time I started ordering the conventional produce,
4:14 I had a visceral reaction to it.
4:18 And we decided pretty early on that it was important to only carry 100

4:23 percent organic produce, not 100 percent organic products around
4:29 the store, because that would, that’s a lot more challenging.
4:33 But for myself, I really believe.
4:36 In consuming the cleanest foods possible, and that
4:43 is just the organic things that are made from organic.
4:46 My plants—what happens with the conventional
4:50 growth method is that there’s so many pesticides and herbicides
4:55 and insecticides used.
4:57 Which actually started after World War II, after a surplus of nerve gas and
5:04 other poisons that, and neurotoxins that were used in warfare, and they
5:11 didn’t know what to do with it, so they decided to put it in our agriculture.
5:15 Sounds—
5:16 Leigh: So brilliant!
5:17 Corrine: Right, right.
5:18 So, when you eat, or when people eat conventional produce, you are putting
5:26 neurotoxins and all these chemicals in your body, and over periods of time,
5:30 I think every now and then it won’t make much of a difference, but
5:35 after time, time and time again of consuming these products, you
5:41 have a buildup, and then people wonder why we have an increase of cancers.
5:45 We have an increase of Alzheimer’s.
5:47 We have an increase of dementia, Parkinson’s, all
5:51 of these old people diseases.
5:53 And that’s pretty much where they stem from. A lot—
5:55 some of it is genetic.
5:57 However, most of it is from what you consume.
6:01 And so I feel, being in the public, I’m very much involved in our
6:06 public community, and I feel very much that it’s my duty to inform
6:12 people what they’re putting in their bodies, and then
6:15 they can make their own choices.
6:16 I’m not the organic Nazi, making sure that nobody consumes any of
6:20 it, but—and I consume it too.

6:22 Like when I eat out, there’s not that many places that have organic
6:26 food available to you.
6:28 So whenever I eat out, I’m consuming those chemicals too.
6:32 Leigh: I got to get you—and we got to get you a log on
6:35 for the Healthy Anywhere app.
6:36 So you can just hit the organic button and—love that.
6:39 Fine.
6:40 Yeah.
6:40 Yeah.
6:40 So we’ll get you on that.
6:42 I’ll follow up afterwards.
6:44 Great.
6:44 Thank you.
6:45 So what stood out to me is you were talking about,
6:48 you had a visceral reaction.
6:51 So it’s like that energy.
6:53 I can tell you are very sensitive, even to have that
6:57 reaction to food and produce.
7:00 So that’s really interesting.
7:02 Corrine: Yeah.
7:03 And it not only tastes better, but it’s better for you and also the earth.
7:09 And a lot of the conventional—when they do grow things conventionally
7:13 and use these things, it ruins the dirt in the soil and it depletes it
7:19 from all the minerals and nutrients that are supposed to be in your
7:22 food, but it’s not getting in there because there’s nothing left.
7:25 It’s so depleted.
7:27 And we have now ruined
7:30 a very large percent of the soil in the United States because of this,
7:35 and there’s now a big movement for regenerative farming and—
7:41 yeah, exactly.
7:41 Love it and all that stuff.
7:44 So I encourage—if anybody is really interested, I encourage you to take a
7:48 look and go down that rabbit hole of all the things that are happening and
7:53 what you can do to make a difference.
7:56 Leigh: 100 percent. And I don’t know if any resources come to mind.
8:01 I’m familiar with the Rodale Institute.
8:04 I think they’re like Rodale.org.
8:06 We can drop some links in the show notes.
8:09 I don’t know if you have any other resources that you would recommend.
8:13 Corrine: Well, there’s Food Revolution, there’s a TV network now that has
8:18 a lot of really great documentaries.
8:20 There’s a documentary I just watched a couple weeks ago that was fantastic.

8:25 I highly recommend it.
8:26 It’s called The Need to Grow.
8:28 And they just—they—it’s just fabulous.
8:31 I think that it’s really interesting.
8:33 And I think people would really like to watch it.
8:37 Leigh: Oh, and I can’t wait to check it out.
8:39 I had not heard of the Food Revolution.
8:41 I love learning about all the new voices and all the new faces
8:47 in regenerative agriculture and fighting for a cleaner, more healthy
8:54 and sustainable food system.
8:56 Because when you talk about those chemicals and how we’ve depleted
9:00 the ground—well, think about the hands that are touching, coming in
9:04 contact with these chemicals and what
9:07 happens to their bodies and their families.
9:12 There are even studies on what they call the fence-line communities.
9:16 These communities, they’ve got homes that are up against these
9:21 farms using the pesticides, and there’s runoff into the water supply,
9:25 and then there are fumes, right?
9:28 I saw—I was reading where they have a higher propensity to have
9:31 respiratory diseases, asthma.
9:36 Corrine: Absolutely.
9:37 Leigh: It’s like, wow, we are literally poisoning ourselves and communities.
9:42 And then there are people that can’t even do anything about it,
9:46 because this is their livelihood or this
9:48 is where they need to live.
9:50 And it’s like, how are we allowing that to happen?
9:54 It’s amazing.
9:55 So I’m hopeful when I learn about these new things and new
9:59 shows, and it seems like there’s a lot more action and awareness,
10:06 public awareness building.
10:08 So maybe something can be done about it.
10:11 I know it’s going to have to be done.
10:13 Corrine: To keep talking about it and doing what we can.
10:15 Leigh: To change that.
10:17 Corrine: That’s great.
10:18 Like, shopping at farmer’s markets, for instance, is really great.
10:23 If you have any local, small
10:25 grocery stores around you, it’s better—like Rocky’s
10:29 in Oakland for us little guys—
10:33 instead of going to Safeway or Whole Foods, which is Amazon anyway, or
10:37 Lucky’s or Kroger’s, whatever you have in your neighborhood.
10:40 It’s just—why not support the little guy who’s trying to put
10:43 their kids through college instead of padding the wallets of these

10:48 huge corporations even more.
10:50 We’re just trying to do the right thing.
10:51 Leigh: Yeah.
10:52 Yeah.
10:53 And so I’m curious, Corinne, to hear how you got into
10:56 this in the first place.
10:59 Like, how did you end up going into the food business?
11:01 Corrine: Had a passion for cooking, and so back in the late ’90s, I started a
11:07 personal chef and catering business.
11:10 And then I got married and had babies and was lucky enough to raise them.
11:14 And then I got divorced in 2014, and a friend of mine asked if I wanted
11:20 to buy a grocery store with her.
11:22 And so I said, “Yes, that sounds awesome.”
11:25 And then, long story short, she ended up going off and doing another thing.
11:30 And I opened a little café and prepared food line and market and
11:35 started doing catering again.
11:37 And then my new boyfriend at the time—
11:40 he was working a desk job.
11:41 The guy who was supposed to buy the store had a falling out with the owner.
11:46 And so the owner asked me if I wanted to buy it.
11:47 I talked to my boyfriend, who we’d been dating a year.
11:50 Leigh: Oh, wow.
11:52 That’s bold.
11:54 Corrine: Yeah.
11:55 We knew right away we had a special bond, so he’s like, “Yes, absolutely.”
12:00 And that was in 2016—we took over the store,
12:02 and yeah, it’s been great.
12:05 He’s my husband now.
12:06 Leigh: Okay, I was going to say—that could go one of two ways.
12:10 You’re like, going into business.
12:12 This is serious after a year.
12:15 So happy—it obviously turned out very well for you.
12:19 Corrine: We got married in the grocery store, in the produce department.
12:23 Leigh: Oh, are you kidding?
12:23 Wait, you had the ceremony?
12:25 Corrine: Yeah.
12:26 Leigh: That’s awesome.
12:28 Yeah.
12:30 I love that.
12:32 All organic produce, of course.
12:35 Corrine: And we got flowers straight from the farm that
12:38 delivers some of our produce to us.
12:39 Leigh: I know—what a beautiful story.
12:41 So you’ve got Rocky’s today, and you still have the
12:46 prepared foods in the back.
12:47 And that’s called?
12:50 Corrine: Two Local Girls.
12:51 Leigh: Okay.
12:52 And so you’re doing catering and prepared foods—like, tell me about
12:57 the prepared foods that you’re doing.
12:59 Corrine: Yeah, sure.
12:59 So we make—I have a staff of four—we make sandwiches, salads, and

13:05 soups daily and also we have entrées in the case
13:10 if you want to heat something up.
13:12 And we just use the produce that we sell at the store and
13:16 buy sustainable meat.
13:18 We buy some meat from actual farms and from people we know who raise the animals.
13:22 Some of the meat comes from Niman Ranch, which is a conglomerate of
13:29 people who raise animals sustainably.
13:32 We like to support those types of businesses to make
13:37 the foods that we serve.
13:38 Leigh: Now, I know that community is one of your core values, and I would
13:45 love to know more about how you’re involving the community in your business.
13:51 Corrine: Yeah, sure.
13:52 Twice a year, we do a food truck event for the community in our parking
13:57 lot, and we have a bouncy house.
13:59 We just had one this last weekend.
14:00 We had a bouncy house, a few food trucks, a kids’ corner, and face painting.
14:07 And then we had the Pacific Boy Choir Academy come perform, and that was nice.
14:13 That was fun. They’re high school boys.
14:14 That was fun.
14:15 And then we also had a showing of a documentary called In the Dirt,
14:21 which was a really cool documentary about how some people brought cycling
14:27 to the Navajo Nation and the positive effects it had that they weren’t anticipating.
14:31 So that was really fun.
14:33 And then I do mind-body-soul fairs twice a year.
14:36 We have artists and people in the healing arts come, and we set
14:42 up tables in the parking lot.
14:43 That’s fun.
14:43 This next year, I really want to do a kids’ business fair, because
14:48 I think that is interesting and would get the schools involved.
14:52 Let’s see, we do other things too.
14:57 We’ve done baby, like, new mom meetups—trying to get
14:59 new moms out of the house.
15:01 To encourage them to come meet other moms in the neighborhood
15:04 with babies of a similar age.
15:06 Gosh, we have a bunch of different little things that we do.
15:09 Leigh: Yeah,
15:09 Corrine: That’s—
15:10 Leigh: It just sounds so thoughtful.
15:12 It sounds like a lot of work.
15:14 How are you pulling off these events?
15:17 And like, how do you get everyone to come together?
15:22 Corrine: I’ve been doing it for so long.
15:24 I just have this—
15:25 I love to plan things.
15:26 So I think that part comes very easily and naturally to me.
15:30 And I have a decent reach on social media.
15:34 People show up for the events that we have.
15:36 Leigh: That’s awesome.
15:37 Yeah.
15:37 And I know when you were in Brooklyn Basin, there were
15:41 fantastic events.
15:43 Like, you had dancing. I remember there was, like,
15:46 symphony, concerts, and musicians.
15:50 It blew me away.
15:51 Was it like every Friday?
15:53 Corrine: Every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, we would have live music
15:56 and comedy on Saturday nights.
15:58 And then the Oakland Symphony actually came for three 16:01 a series of three concerts.
16:03 That’s what it was.
16:04 It was amazing.
16:06 There were over a thousand people there.
16:08 And unfortunately, the first night, the conductor passed away.
16:11 So, the other two concerts became a celebration of life for him.
16:17 It was really beautiful.
16:18 I was so honored to be able to host that.
16:20 Oh my goodness.
16:22 Leigh: Yeah.
16:24 Corrine: And we did some events for the Black Panthers.
16:26 Their 55th anniversary party.
16:30 And yeah, we’ve just done a lot of fun stuff.
16:33 Hosted the Black Cowboys down there.
16:35 I love hosting people.
16:38 Leigh: That’s so cool.
16:39 Corrine: Yeah.
16:40 Leigh: Oh my goodness.
16:41 We came by a few times, and it’s such a cool vibe—a wonderful scene.
16:46 I know that location’s closed, so now you’re focused on the Oakmore
16:51 neighborhood location, which has been around since 1961.
16:56 Is that right?
16:57 Corrine: Actually, it’s been a grocery store since 1939.
17:00 Wow.
17:01 But Rocky—the actual person—is still alive.
17:04 He’s 89, and he bought it in 1959 or ’60 and opened the store in ’61.
17:11 Leigh: And you decided to—
17:12 Corrine: Keep the name.
17:13 Leigh: Oh, yeah. That’s great.
17:16 That’s a lot of history.
17:18 Yeah.
17:19 And I know recently you’re up against a lot of challenges.
17:23 Tell us about that.
17:24 Corrine: Yeah, there’s this bridge that connects us to the main street.
17:30 Thankfully, they’re seismically retrofitting it.
17:34 However, when they have traffic control up, it affects our sales a lot.
17:37 We actually started a GoFundMe for people to help us if they feel like they’d like to.
17:41 But I don’t like to push it.
17:43 It’s a sensitive thing, you know?
17:48 I don’t really like asking people for money per se.
17:50 But so many people are grateful that we’re in the community and
17:53 remember what it was like before we were there.
17:56 Actually, the store was closed for a year or two before we took it over.
18:00 And before that, it was cigarettes and lottery tickets.
18:02 So, it was a very different store back then.
18:05 And right before we bought it, it was not the greatest.
18:08 Leigh: Not organic? Not all organic produce?
18:11 Corrine: No, not at all.
18:14 Leigh: Not beautiful, sustainable dishes coming out of the pickup window?
18:17 Oh my goodness.
18:20 What would you say has been one key bit of wisdom that you’ve
18:28 picked up along this journey?
18:31 You’ve been doing this for almost a decade, right?
18:36 Running the market?
18:38 Corrine: I would say, if you’re passionate about something, just keep at it.
18:42 You have to roll with the punches a lot of the time.
18:45 And just take it as it comes.
18:47 Sometimes, you have to pivot and do something else, and that’s okay.
18:50 Just follow the journey and don’t have too many expectations,
18:55 because that’s what leads to disappointment.
18:58 Leigh: But keep going.
18:59 Keep going.
19:00 I love it.
19:01 Okay.
19:02 I’m with you, Corrine. 19:03 I’m going to keep going.
19:05 Love that.
19:06 Yeah.
19:07 What would you say has been most surprising about your journey so far?
19:13 Corrine: I think the most surprising thing to me is just the outpouring of love from the community.
19:18 It’s so nice to hear how much we mean to people and how much they appreciate us.
19:23 I really didn’t expect it to be at the magnitude that it is today.
19:32 We’re just so grateful for everybody who shops with us and has helped us along the way—big and small.
19:36 And yeah, it’s just been an interesting journey.
19:41 I kind of can’t wait to see what happens next.
19:44 Leigh: It’s very exciting.
19:45 Very exciting.
19:46 What’s one thing you wish more people knew about your business or about the industry in general?
19:52 Corrine: About us, I think what I wish people knew was how expensive the actual price of food is—especially if it’s real food and not a bunch of processed food.
20:07 People tend to forget that good-for-you foods just cost a little bit more.
20:13 And also, just because we’re a little mom-and-pop shop doesn’t mean we’re price gouging.
20:20 People assume, “Oh, they’re small, so they’re going to be expensive.”
20:23 But that’s not true.
20:29 We really have great deals, and we often sell things at cost because we know how expensive things are.
20:35 For instance, blueberries right now are not in season.
20:39 Other places are selling them for $14.99 for a tiny pack—
20:43 I think it’s six or eight ounces, maybe?
20:50 They’re so expensive.
20:51 Our cost is $7.99.
20:53 And that’s exactly what we charge people—
20:55 we don’t add anything extra.
20:56 That’s just one example of the little things we do around the store for our customers,
21:01 just so they’re able to get blueberries for their child who absolutely needs them, no matter what—
21:06 even if they’re not in season.
21:10 We do a lot of that kind of thing.
21:12 Just because we care about what people eat.
21:18 Leigh: And as you’re saying that…
21:19 Yeah, that’s such a great point.
21:21 And when I think of when I was living in San Francisco,
21:25 and there’d be the corner market, you’d grab certain things. 21:29 Leigh: And yeah, they were expensive.
21:31 Corrine: Some places are like that. But…
21:33 Leigh: Yeah, we are not. Yeah, that is really important to get in front of because that might be an assumption or something I’m not even aware that I’m thinking.
21:43 So that’s great to know that you’re so thoughtful and so conscious of that—that you’re looking at how you’re pricing.
21:48 And then you’re just saying, hey, we’re going to sell this.
21:51 We’re not going to make anything off of it, basically.
21:54 Wow.
21:57 Corrine: And it’s remarkable.
21:59 The big box stores, they don’t have that power.
22:02 They can’t just say, “Oh, we’re going to sell this and not make any money,” because they only care about the bottom line.
22:09 And it’s also a very razor-thin margin that we make.
22:13 There are a lot of expenses that people don’t see.
22:16 Our PG&E bill, for example—we have a very high electric bill because of all the refrigeration.
22:21 It’s like $8,000 a month.
22:24 It’s insane.
22:25 Leigh: Oh my goodness.
22:26 Corrine: It’s so crazy.
22:27 Leigh: Wow.
22:30 Corrine: I’m actually looking into solar. I’m trying to find someone that can help us do that.
22:32 That would be interesting.
22:33 Yeah, we’d really like to go solar.
22:36 Yes.
22:37 So that’s a long-term goal.
22:40 Leigh: Oh yeah, that would be awesome.
22:42 So I know you’re sourcing from a lot of the local sustainable farmers.
22:48 Does that make it more affordable to you?
22:52 Because you would think, okay, if it’s in season and you’re able to get it from the super hyper-local guys, maybe that gives you an advantage.
23:00 But I don’t know, you’re probably seeing costs go up no matter what.
23:04 So what is that looking like?
23:05 Corrine: Yeah, we do see things go up no matter what. But you’re right—
23:09 if things are in season, we buy from local farms, and we have relationships with the farmers.
23:12 I think that is awesome.
23:17 I love knowing where my food comes from.
23:20 Leigh: Yes.
23:22 Corrine: I think it’s really a nice thing.
23:25 And knowing how they treat the land and care so much about the plants and the fruits and vegetables they grow.
23:31 They really just care so much.
23:34 Leigh: Anyone you want to give a shoutout to?
23:38 Corrine: Sure!
23:39 Blossom Bluff—you guys are awesome.
23:41 And Blue House—we love you.
23:43 Blossom Bluff does beautiful stone fruit in the summertime.
23:47 It’s just amazing.
23:50 I don’t know how they do it, but it’s just so sweet and juicy and just yummy.
23:55 And Blue House is out in Pescadero.
23:58 I actually interviewed the owner.
24:00 We went out there, and he talked about the soil and how he rotates crops and stuff like that.
24:05 I actually have that up on my YouTube channel.
24:10 Leigh: Oh, great.
24:11 Great. We’ll have to link over to that.
24:13 Corrine: I’m starting a new project about showing people where their food comes from.
24:16 Because I feel like there’s such a disconnect between people and what we eat and where it comes from.
24:21 I think that’ll be interesting to show.
24:27 Leigh: Oh, I look forward to seeing that and following that.
24:31 And yeah, it’s just so important.
24:34 And I’m impressed.
24:35 It sounds like you never have a down moment.
24:38 You just keep coming up with what’s next.
24:41 Corrine: I like to be busy. It keeps me out of trouble.
24:42 Leigh: Corinne, anything else that you would want to talk about before we wrap up?
24:48 Or any points that you would really want to drive home?
24:53 Corrine: Just thinking about our planet and what we can do to help combat what’s happening with climate change.
25:02 The soil, the growth of our food, and our sustainable future—
25:06 these are things that are really important for people to start looking into.
25:12 No matter what you’re interested in.
25:16 Maybe you’re not interested in the dirt, or you’re not interested in whatever, blah, blah, blah.
25:22 But just find something that you’re interested in, go down that rabbit hole, and see where it takes you.
25:28 Leigh: That’s lovely.
25:31 And how can people who want to support you and Rocky’s Market—what’s the best way for people to support you right now?
25:37 Corrine: Just come shop at the store.
25:42 Leigh: Yeah.
25:43 Corrine: We love seeing new people, and we love seeing our regular customers.
25:46 It’s more than a grocery store—it’s a community hub.
25:51 Leigh: That is wonderful.
25:53 Thank you, Corinne.
25:54 And thank you to Brady, your other half, who’s also helping to sustain the operation.
25:58 We wish you nothing but the best.
26:03 We look forward to watching all the good to come in the future with Rocky’s and everything that you’re bringing to the community.
26:11 So thank you again, Corinne.
26:14 Corrine: Thank you.
26:15 And thanks for having me.
26:17 Leigh: It was a pleasure.
26:19 Corrine: My pleasure too.